Christ Alone

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Posts by Christ Alone

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  56

  Is The Book of Revelation All About Me & My Generation?

  by ClubSandwich in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jws believe the book of revelation offers an account of what is to come in their lifetime.

  but the problem is that every generation for the last 1900 years has thought the same thing.

  and, every generation has been wrong, even though each new one thinks it will be about me and my generation this time.. most reputable bible scholars believe that revelation, also called the apocalypse of john, was not written to describe the future for people living today.

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  Christ Alone

  Thanks for the reference to Days of Vengeance, Vander! I'm downloading it right now.
• 
  56

  Is The Book of Revelation All About Me & My Generation?

  by ClubSandwich in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jws believe the book of revelation offers an account of what is to come in their lifetime.

  but the problem is that every generation for the last 1900 years has thought the same thing.

  and, every generation has been wrong, even though each new one thinks it will be about me and my generation this time.. most reputable bible scholars believe that revelation, also called the apocalypse of john, was not written to describe the future for people living today.

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  Christ Alone

  Club Sandwich, you're right that there are varying opinions on who wrote Revelation. When the author introduces himself, he does not say John the apostle, but just John, your brother in Christ. There is no other actual place in the book of Revelation that points to John the apostle as the author of Revelation. The majority of early church leaders such as Melito, bishop of Sardis, Ireneus, Tertullian, Clement, Eusebius and Papias, bishop of Hierapolis believed that the Revelation was written by John, the son of Zebedee, who wrote the Gospel of John.

  On the other hand, Dionysius, Bishop of Alexandria and a disciple of Origen, asserts that it is written by Cerinthus. St. Jerome also expressed doubts of Johannine authorship.

  Some believe that John may have written some of the book, and then maybe dictated to someone else as his years grew and he grew unable to write. Revelations' main focal point is the wrath of God, death, whereas in John and the epistles of John the focus is on the teachings of Christ. Some say this is because someone else wrote it. Yet the different focal points could be because the theme is different. The theme of Christ's love wouldn't need to have anything about God's Wrath and vise versa.

  Both arguments are compelling, which cause some to believe that the work was done by multiple writers. The writer states that the Revelation was written while he was banished on the island of Patmos, probably toward the end of Domitian's reign (between 81 - 96). There is a link to the gospel of John in that both Revelation and John use the word "logos" or "Word" when referring to Jesus.

  However, this goes both ways. The word "hell" or "hades" does not appear in John's gospel, but it does in Revelation. John's gospel use words like "life", "grace", "light", and "truth", but this does not appear in Revelation.

  The different word usage, as well as other textual analysis cause some to say that Revelation was written by multiple writers. But traditionally it is credited to John, son of Zebedee.
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  19

  who is your favoured successful APOSTATE?

  by prologos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on this site are very capable people and much to learn.

  rejects from powerful religions, that contributed to mankinds advance, are good examples for us.

  what is your inspiring historical apostate figure?

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  Christ Alone

  Well now I'm ashamed that my answer wasn't the same as Londo's! Nice one!!!
• 
  56

  Is The Book of Revelation All About Me & My Generation?

  by ClubSandwich in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jws believe the book of revelation offers an account of what is to come in their lifetime.

  but the problem is that every generation for the last 1900 years has thought the same thing.

  and, every generation has been wrong, even though each new one thinks it will be about me and my generation this time.. most reputable bible scholars believe that revelation, also called the apocalypse of john, was not written to describe the future for people living today.

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  Christ Alone

  Here is a good article on the Apocalypse of Peter: http://www.ntcanon.org/Apocalypse_of_Peter.shtml

  Here is a translation of the book: http://www.us.oup.com/us/companion.websites/ehrman/PDF/LSAoP.pdf
• 
  56

  Is The Book of Revelation All About Me & My Generation?

  by ClubSandwich in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jws believe the book of revelation offers an account of what is to come in their lifetime.

  but the problem is that every generation for the last 1900 years has thought the same thing.

  and, every generation has been wrong, even though each new one thinks it will be about me and my generation this time.. most reputable bible scholars believe that revelation, also called the apocalypse of john, was not written to describe the future for people living today.

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  Christ Alone

  One reason why certain books did not make it is when it was made clear that the book was not written by the one that it was credited to. That was one of the main reasons for rejecting Peter. When it became clear that it was not written by Peter, and actually written after his death, it was commonly rejected. However, the same is not true of John. We have quotes from early church fathers a few years after its writing verifying that it was written by the apostle John. This has been debated NOW, but then it was not. It was universally accepted that John wrote the letter.

  A study of the NT canon is fascinating. There are various reasons that books were either accepted or rejected. All gnostic writings were rejected. All books that they felt were not written by the apostles or close associates of the apostles were rejected. Books that clearly contradicted other portions of scripture were rejected.

  While Revelation reads like fantastic literature, and makes extraordinary claims, it does not directly contradict any other portion of scripture. It was believed to be written by the apostle John on Patmos. So it was included.

  Of course this is a very brief and basic list of reasons. I recommend this book by Bruce Metzger. It's very scholarly, and deep. But it's a subject that is absolutely fascinating whether you believe in the inspiration of the NT or not.

  http://www.amazon.com/The-Canon-New-Testament-Significance/dp/0198269544
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  9

  Koolaid Man's "Johnny" is Creating Another Stir...

  by DarioKehl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i saw this video today.

  i never visit rick's creepy web site, but it looks like "johnny" recently shared some more incredible information from inside headquarters.

  this guy made a video perpetuating the rumor.

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  Christ Alone

  Wow...this guy sure sounds credible. I think he needs to take his Ritalin.
• 
  56

  Is The Book of Revelation All About Me & My Generation?

  by ClubSandwich in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jws believe the book of revelation offers an account of what is to come in their lifetime.

  but the problem is that every generation for the last 1900 years has thought the same thing.

  and, every generation has been wrong, even though each new one thinks it will be about me and my generation this time.. most reputable bible scholars believe that revelation, also called the apocalypse of john, was not written to describe the future for people living today.

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  Christ Alone

  Maybe, maybe not. There are various views about Revelation. Some say that most of it was fulfilled in the first few centuries and fortells the fall of Rome. Others interpret it literally and believe it to be future. The WTs interpretation is just silly, and any unbiased thinking person (and even some biased people) see that their interpretation is a pure fabrication.

  There are various reasons why Peter's apocalypse was left out of the canon. First, it was clear that it was written AFTER Peter had died. The Muratorian Fragment shows that many had doubts about it very early. Also, much of it was clearly taken from mythology, and doesn't match what other portions of scriptures say. For example, it's depiction of Hell is different than as described by Jesus. For example, nowhere in scripture is it suggested that the damned would be tortured by demons. That's a Greek notion. Peter himself said that the demons would be chained.

  One only needs to read the book to see that it doesn't fit in with the rest of scripture. This is one of the more easy books to see why it didn't make it into the canon of scripture.

  The Apocalypse of Peter also does not exist fully in a manuscript. We have 2 fragments, both of which are different versions of this book. The Greek and Ethiopian versions differ considerably, although they involve much of the same subject matter. In the Greek version, the disciples ask Jesus to show them believers who have passed from this world into righteousness. Christ shows them a wonderful vision of the redeemed, but He also shows them a terrible and frightening picture of the condemned. This scene has many similarities to the Greek myths of the underworld. Readers of Dante’s Inferno would find the descriptions in the Greek fragment oddly familiar.

  In the Ethiopian version, the disciples ask Christ to tell them some of the signs of the end times and to further explain the incident with the fig tree (Mark 11). Christ unveils a vision of the future that includes epic levels of destruction and chaos. This version also makes mention of the beautiful state of the righteous and the horrible torment of the unrighteous.
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  19

  who is your favoured successful APOSTATE?

  by prologos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on this site are very capable people and much to learn.

  rejects from powerful religions, that contributed to mankinds advance, are good examples for us.

  what is your inspiring historical apostate figure?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Christ Alone

  Ray Franz has to be #1 on everyone's list. But there are several others of the same era that were important to the cause.

  Randall Watters (our own Dogpatch) is a very important figure in WT apostasy.

  Barbara Anderson is another of my favorites. She was the researcher for the Proclaimers book, and has a wealth of knowledge into the WT's history of covering up Child Abuse.

  Rick and Laverne Townsend released their JC meeting on tape in the early 80's, exposing what happens behind closed doors to everyone for the first time.

  Paul Grundy of jwfacts has also been intrumental in helping others to see TTATT. His site is my number 1 go to site when researching the WT.

  Other notable apostates include: Duane Magnani (instrumental in helping in child custody), David Reed (a great apologist and exposer of the WT), Chris Sanchez (former spanish WT translator that left around the same time as Ray Franz), Bill Cetnar (one of the first great apostates), etc...

  There have been MANY that have been very helpful to the cause. I love em all!!!
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  12

  who is jonny the bethalite and is six screens sane?

  by unstopableravens in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just wondering, i dont know much about either, i just seen a video youtube.

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  Christ Alone

  Johnny the bethelite was a fraud that was a regular guest on Rick Fearon's call in conferance call on sixscreensofthewatchtower.com. He was proven to be a fraud, and not actually a bethelite.

  Sixscreensofthewatchtower.com is a sensationalist site that damages much of what we are trying to do here. It makes untrue claims, makes connections that don't exist, and while it has SOME worthwhile information, it is exactly the sort of site that a JW will look at and think, "The WT was right about staying away from apostate sites." Rick Fearon single handedly has damaged much of "our" credibility. If you doubt what I'm saying, go over to six screens and listen to one of the conference calls. Many of the callers seem to be a bit...mentally challenged. Many others seem to be conspiracy theorists. Others are just completely fooled by some of the garbage that is talked about on that call.

  I'm sure Rick is a great guy, but he needs to filter his show a bit better. He needs to monitor his guests closer, and have some sort of structure for the calls. Some of them run 4 or 5 hours. Or at least they used to when I listened to them years ago.
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  77

  Have you ACTUALLY seen any Bible prophecies fulfilled in your life/lifetime?

  by punkofnice in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  blowed if i have!.

  i know the jdubs think that there are prophetic signs all around.

  well they bloody would!.

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  Christ Alone

  He was very clear he would be back within the lifetime of his first followers.

  Where did he say that he would return during their lifetime?